Last Saturday I went to shopping and then dinner with Annika, a good friend of mine. She is Swedish (obviously), and a good laugh. She is currently dating my Partner Unit’s best friend, Hans, and she and I have sworn a girlie pact that should they break up she and I will still be friends.
This, since Hans tends to go through the ladies. But Annika is seriously cool. Her only drawback is that she thinks Hans is extremely hot and the Swedish catch of the year. Now, he is a good guy, but I saw him naked once in the sauna and the words “shaved-rat boy” comes to mind.
I like some body fur on my Muppets, and this guy has none.
Anyway, Annika and I went shopping first, and wound up buying the exact pair of boots at Debenhams together. This, after trying on nearly every single style and generally trashing the shoe section we were in (and even resorting to giggly girl weirdness over espadrilles)
Chicks do this. We go shopping and encourage each other to buy stuff. We even sometimes buy the same stuff. What we don’t do are slumber parties where we have naked pillow fights. Let’s try to keep it real here, guys.
We had to pause for a bit for some enormous margaritas, where we covered sensitive girl stuff. Break-ups. Lost loves. If one of our breasts looked bigger than the other. Important things.
After a rewarding shopping session she and I want to dinner, a good place in the middle of town. We ordered a bottle of red with more on reserve. And although we quickly progressed to drunken chick sex ramblings, we of course started with philosophy.
Annika planned on attending a lecture on the basics of philosphy, as held by a Catholic priest. She wanted me to go with her, but I am not sure which part sounded more dodgy to me-that a priest planned on giving a non-biased philosophy talk, or that it would be an 8-hour deal in Swedish.
Now I used to be a Catholic, prior to my attending Catholics Anonymous to try to get over it. It was a 21-step program (12 is not enough to get over the guilt, and in fact, you CANNOT get over Catholic guilt), and although I am an atheist today I find religion and studying religions to be interesting. I just couldn’t see what I could get out of this. Couldn’t I go read Alain de Botton and skip the religious inferences?
She was determined, however. She tried to convince me, using material that he had presented to develop interest in the class.
She poured some red wine from the bottle into her glass, and then held her glass up.
Her: What’s in this glass?
Me: Red wine.
Her: Aha! And do you think, or do you believe, that it is red wine?
Me: I know it is.
Her: And you know it is based on faith?
Me: No, I know because I watched you pour it.
Her: No, pretend you hadn’t seen that.
Me: But I did. Now your vinyard religion is tainted.
Her: OK, try to pretend. Say I was holding up this glass, and it was clear. What would be in the glass?
Me: I don’t know. I would stick my finger in and see what it is.
Her: Please don’t stick your finger in my glass.
Me: OK I won’t.
She looked annoyed. I felt I was winning.
Her: Don’t you care what’s in the glass?
Me: Only if it’s my glass. If it’s your glass, I really don’t give a damn what’s in it. If it’s mine, then I will presumably already know what’s in it, since I put it there.
Her: Why couldn’t God can’t put it there?
Me: Cause I would have seen him doing it and asked what he was doing to my glass! Then I would’ve confronted him, since God owes me money!
Her: You have faith about some things, surely.
Me:Yes, but only after I have proven them. If it is not able to be re-produced in a lab or bedroom environment, it cannot be something I blindly believe in. For instance-the G-spot. I didn't believe it existed, then mine was found, so now I do believe in them.
Her: Aha! So you can have faith?
Me: No, I can admit when I have fucked up. If God appears on my doorstep tomorrow, I will be the first to admit I was wrong. Then I would ask him for the money he owes me.
Her: Why are you being stubborn about this?
Me: I am sorry I am not giving you the response you seek. If you are trying to see how deep my faith and belief goes, you’ll be sitting here for a long time. Am I supposed to just have faith that is wine? Not going to happen. I am a "need proof" girl, which is why I am not religious. The church and proof are not mutually exclusive. If I don’t see you pouring it, and you ask me what’s in it, and I tell you red wine, and you want to argue why I think that, my response is: “that’s just what I think”. But I have a life, and I likely really don’t care what’s in the glass. Unless it’s my glass. Then please, can you pour me some wine?
She gave up then. I am not convertible. She poured us both more wine, and our talk turned to raunchy chick sex talk. Which I will post about tomorrow…
-H.
Posted by Everydaystranger at October 9, 2003 03:41 PM | TrackBackMelo just summed up what I was trying to get at during a whole rant.
That whole business of equity with words is beyond me.
Posted by: H at October 10, 2003 08:27 AMI am fully with you on this one. I'm an atheist and I need tangible proof. I can also not be fooled by weird logic. I can attribute a proper physical reason to things and if I can do that then there clearly is no miracle being wrought by god.
I have faith, but in the actual and not the unreal.
Posted by: Melodrama at October 10, 2003 06:01 AMI think my soul is in mortal danger. Not only am I a fallen Catholic, but I am a vegetarian, too!
Dan and Tom-I have actually been thinking about the subject of agnosticism versus atheism. I am struggling a bit with that one, as on one hand I want to do the whole independent thing. You know-I don't need a God to fall back on to blame my problems on.
And as former Lutherans and Catholics here, let me say-what is so inspiring about being told you need to make a pit stop to a little place called Purgatory, to work on your redemption?
Perhaps I ride the fence a bit between atheism and agnosticism-I am more that willing to admit I am wrong should God show up (with my money), but most of the time, I just don't get how a God could be ok about doing some of the things that happen. I am not talking about war or ebola, or anything like that. I am talking about the real stories that make you go-why wasn't God there? A little girl dies at the hands of an abusive parent. A woman, desperate to have a baby, miscarries for the tenth time in a row. What's the point of God if he's not there to put a stop to that?
I often find that, depsite my leanings to DEMAND proof and my firm desire to go about my life my own way, without divine intervention, I do find that occasionally, I do want to be able to say: well, at least I was not alone in this.
Whew-what a rant. Damn I need to stop being an insomniac!
Posted by: Helen at October 9, 2003 10:22 PMH,
I have a question about being an atheist. I understand the part about being a 'need proof' person. I am that kind of person and therefore am a former Lutheran, now agnostic.
My question is this: how do you know there is no god? What proof have you seen that god does not exist? I understand a person who thinks that they haven't seen proof of the existence or absence of a god since I am that person. However, I have always been confused by atheists as I don't understand how they are so certain god doesn't exist.
Posted by: Dan at October 9, 2003 09:45 PMI too am a fellow Catholics Anonymous. I am finsihed with my 21 steps.
I wrote about how the pope came out against going to protestant service but didn't say anything about pedophile priests on my blog.
I am realizing that I, like Don W, am becoming an objectivist (I think). I do feel somewhat empty. If there is no God, and death is eternal darkness, doesn't that kinda suck?
Posted by: Tom at October 9, 2003 08:58 PMWhy didn't you tell me God owed you money? I would have asked him for it during our little conversation!
Posted by: Don at October 9, 2003 08:33 PMOne of the funniest quotes I've heard about religion was said in reference to my boss, who is both an atheist and a vegetarian. My friend Max said, "How can you eat tofu every day and not pray?"
Posted by: Jennifer at October 9, 2003 07:36 PM