Everyday Stranger

Luuka list - yes.
Pam - Glasgow

I think I may have come off a little too harsh. Damn this medium for your not being able to see the worry in my eyes!

I hope things are going well for you, my dear. I am 100% in your corner. I hope that I've not given any impression, other than that.

I know I'm late and all but in this case you've gotta at least give Y a chance. You have to take what he says at face value until he proves otherwise. Anything else is unfair and frankly impossible for him to live up to. That he is there with you now is proof of his committment. And it's only been a week. Give everything some time.

Helen, Just remember that it has all been Said and Written before....it is simply your choice to make.

I've been thinking of you gril, hope things are ok?

Tonight I was sitting in a movie theatre in Winnipeg, 6 or 7 time zones away from you, completely paying attention to the excellent movie (Something's Gotta Give, I recommend it) and I suddenly thought, "I wonder how Helen and Mr. Y's evening with the family went." Isn't the human brain a funny thing! Hope the two of you were more settled by the time you went out, and that it was okay.

Frances said it very well, bravo! Adultry... a heart-breaking act, and one shouldn't forget soon-to-be ex-wife... her heart is breaking too... like Frances, BTDT. Nevertheless, all good wishes to Helen. Remember to believe in yourself!

Well, the event is tonight. My dress is ready, my face biored, my heart tumultuous.

Dear God, I hope I am not Transitional Girl-of course, all indications from him prove I am not.

Frances-I hear you on the adultery bit. I am never, EVER doing it again. Ever. The heartache is simply unbearable.

Dane-of course I beat myself up with it. I'm self-destructive :)

Welcome to life with a Married Man. An English, older, married man. Been there, done that.

To all the naive souls who said, "I don't understand why his friends don't know already that's he's divorced." Because he's not divorced, you innocent young things, he's barely separated, his wife's bed isn't even cool yet from his departure.

Been there, done that, got the two kids that he's never been able to support or father because he's so wracked with guilt over Family #1 that he can't bring himself to commit to Family #2.

It's a long long long road you have ahead of you and the long-distance relationship was no kind of preparation. I've been watching your preparations to move and your excitement about True Love with such a heavy heart, couldn't bring myself to rain on the parade of commenters your age who haven't yet lived through why there's a commandment about adultery. Not because it's sin, because it is pain and guilt and anguish and 99% likely to not work out.

Good luck, kiddo. Good luck, Mr. Y, you remind me so much of a man I loved dearly and still love in so many ways, and I know his/your road was and will be no easier than mine and Helen's.

First thing, I must have missed the post where you detailed your part in causing the end of his relationship with EXwife. Assuming that was even possible, and noting he was not the only one married, it seems he should have just as much guilt to bear with regards to ExPartner Unit.

While on the subject of guilt, why are you going there? This all fits neatly into one of those "why do you love me" "do you like her better than me" type discussions, and nothing good can come from it.

This maybe a lot easier to say that to believe, but it doesn't matter if you were the first choice, 2nd, of 55th, he chose you, thats all you need to know. He needs to stop blaming you for the breakup of his marraige, He is a big boy, he made a big boy decision... he made his bed, now he needs to sleep in it, ah, so to speak =)

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I keep seeing this double standard being thrown up here, and you beating yourself with it. You both made huge sacrfices to be together, key word is both. If someone has to be a victim, someone has to be at fault, I am affraid you guys will self destruct. That would be very sad.

Dane

these are all the things my friends said, and I felt, when I moved 2000 km to be with a man who was just leaving his wife and three kids.
It's not easy.
But you are his choice. Doesn't matter how well you knew him, or loved him, you've moved in with someone you don't know.
Know's the time for you to get to know each other. Seriously. Love will help. Love will get you through the hard times.
If you let it.
(It's very disconcerting to have to pick up green legs off the floor in the mornings. Yeah, I know. Totally off subject, but I thought it might make you smile. My cat has a thing about grasshoppers, but she doesn't eat the legs ;)! )

Okay. Firstly, Rebecca? (And of course, my sweetheart Helen). . .

You are feeling insecure for a reason. I have been in this situation more times than I care to admit. It's not always that it's the other partner's fault, but believe me. . .you're feeling insecure FOR. A. REASON.

I'm not saying that you must discuss every aspect of your life in minute detail -- but I get the impression that you are withholding nothing in this relationship and you are not getting the same in return. Thus, you are feeling shut out.

This may change after the other part of his life is straightened out AND he has introduced you and made you part of his life. It may not.

As for the first part of your conversation, where you're fumbling for the term: the one I used to use was "Transition Girl/Boy." You know, the one that helps you get over a break-up and realize you still got it?

I'm still not sure you're NOT Transition Girl.

Yes, I would very much like to be added to the Luuka list. : )

I think what everyone here is saying to you is that they care about you. That they are concerned for you. Some of the post sounds a little rough around the edges but, they are all good questions and advise. I have no advise. But, I feel for you.

It's just like that poem I emailed you. If he says yes to any of the questions then, there is no need to question if you are first in his life. Remember when it said this:

"I want to know if you can
disappoint another
to be true to yourself.
If you can bear the accusation of betrayal
and not betray your own soul.
If you can be faithless
and therefore trustworthy."

Read the poem again.

Best of luck this weekend, sweetie

A lot of the comments here-including from Sarah, Kaetchen, Drew, Emberverity, our lovely Oda Mae-have thumped me on the head and are helping, honest.

I am totally getting a new therapist, and getting one pronto.

I love that others here understand and have been there, too.

And Andrea-I choose this doggy in the window. He's only 12 years older than I. I love that about him! :)

everyone else has said some great things. And really you should think about each and everyone of them.

I would also caution you stongly though as someone who knows how hard it is to leave it behind but makes the choise to: not to go back to disassociation. It will destroy all things that you can imagine. It really is a horring coping mechanism. May feel good till you pay the prices for it. Learn to savor living in the moment and being present, it really is worth it.

Dear god I sound all Zen now.... must go bounce off some walls or something.

Helen, in many ways I'm a lot like you, and I've learned (the hard way, unfortunately) that using your partner to hurt yourself is the fastest way to kill a relationship with someone who really loves you. If he loves you, he can't love the thorns and that will drive you apart.

Good god, girl... find someone your own age! You want an equal, not a daddy. After the newness has worn off, you'll be tired of being the trophy girlfriend/wife. Get yourself set up in your own place, and start calling the shots. And don't forget to look around! There are obviously LOTS of other interesting people out there.

H love,

May I suggest that this weekend you spend much time looking and listening? If this group of people already has an opinion about you, it might be helpful to watch and hear, rather than trying to impress anybody. That way you can see who they are, rather than fighting to convince them of your worthiness. If friends and family of Mr Y genuinely care about him, they will eventually see good the good things in you. They are most likely having a very difficult time of it, trying to understand what he's doing and why.

As for getting happy...it's not like that, love. Just being together isn't going to solve everything. It may eventually give you a solid base, but that's going to be with TIME, after you're both able to talk about what brought you to this point. Until then, I'd suggest you work on YOU - learning what makes you happy other than loving someone and working.

It's all this stuff that makes life difficult but rewarding - the stuff that happens *after* the movie ends, after the sex. I know, it stinks. But it's SO worth every bit of effort.

Love you. Take care.

Ooh, you are starting to sound off the charts HIGH maintenance. The guy leaves his wife and kids for you and you're bitching that he didn't leave them fast enough, make you feel special enough, how dare he not realize he's your soul mate and amputate that part of his life in an instant to prove that you're THE ONE?

Sorry, I'm with Mr. Y on this one, that's pretty out there. And looking at it from your point of view, would you want a man who would eagerly turn his back on children and a woman he'd shared 18 years with? I wouldn't - I'd want a man who competely and fully examined his life and his marriage and tried to honor his commitment before deciding that he just couldn't, he had to be with me. I'd take the fact that he was compelled to return to you, in spite of the enormous guilt he feels and, let's face it, the inconvenience and embarrassment he faces with friends and family, as a HUGE compliment and a major indication of his feelings.

Give him a break. I think you're just winding him up looking for reassurance before the weekend meetings. If you try to understand his point, maybe he'll get some extra reassurance he made the right choice! :) After all, he's probably just as stressed.

In the South, we'd say you're fractious. When I'm fractious, nothing my husband does makes me happy. Even looking at him sitting on the couch watching TV pisses me off. But when he asks me what I want - I DON'T KNOW!! Just DO something, the RIGHT thing! (We all have our fractious moments, me more than most. Normally a good quality single malt - three fingers - helps.)

Best of luck this weekend. Be there for each other. That's the best way to show this is a good thing for all. And don't feel too concerned about not talking about taboo areas of your life (his marriage, etc.) That will come. But for this in-between phase, the relationship is an oasis for him and he doesn't want to bring his marriage or baggage into it. Plenty of time for that later in the cold light of day.

Sorry, once again a sort of serious post. I will work on being more 'pithy' for the next one.
Ain't life a bitch some days?

Helen, what’s whit this sex obsession? :-). I´m probably just jealous again... I suppose your slowly coming down from the clouds and heaven of the first days, the pleasure of the reencounter with Mr.Y, and beginning to have to cope with the everyday living thing. If my opinion was asked, I would say Mr.Y deserves some slack too. From what I gather here, he´s also coming from difficult times and very hard decisions, and if you love him I´m sure you will respect that. Love, Miguel.

Okay, I got kinda teary at the part where he wouldn't give you up. That if he'd decided to have nothing to do with you ever, he could have worked out his marriage, but he wouldn't give you up. That's a "whoa" to me. Helen, he chose you. There wasn't a first or second prize. [ex]Wife was there before you came 'round. He had a big history with her. And he chose you.

I agree with Drew. Reading your email had all kinds of red flags going up. Take some time - you in essence went from one guy straight to another. Where did Helen come in? When did you give yourself the right to emotional abuse? Think about it.

I've had many a fights like these, mostly I start them because I don't know how to be 'happy' either. I'm insecure and extremely sensitive. I think we should start a support group for that...;)

Hang in there, it's all so new. Things will fall into place whether people like you and I truly believe that or not.

Hang in there. Both of you have just begun a new life. Birth is a painful process, but there is often great joy afterward.

PS-
And make-up sex is FAN-FREAKIN'-TANSTIC!!

Don't settle for second-best within yourself - meaning, don't settle for second-rate mental health. Work may be fantasticly fabulous, but you deserve to be happy at home, too. Therapists, whatever - get what you need. Shoes are okay, but you, yourself, inside are far more important than anything else.

"Sure, I was a cause, but perhaps it's like a piece of china-you can't break something that doesn't already have a fracture."

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. I've broken many a piece of good china on hard floors.

I think you need to look at the situation from an objective point of view. Are you happy where you are now with Mr. Y? Is the knowledge that you did have some part in the demise of Mr. Y marriage (and he is your relationship) something that you will be able to let go of or is this something that will weigh on you and as time goes by or will it begin to pull you two apart?

Are you okay with what appears to be his acceptance of the demise when its the both of you talking about it but yet a totally different position when he talks to family and friends (remember it wasnt until this week that he even bothered to tell some of his closest people in his life that his marriage was over and with others he did not really provide a clairification to others who blame you for it).

I know that you feel very very close to Mr. Y but from an outside point of view these are some of the things that raise red flags with me. I hate being someone who is negative but I rather try to be someone who asks the hard questions then let you walk into something that may provide you with great pain and sadness later on.

Helen, believe it or not, I know exactly how you feel - about not being the first choice.
Someday, I'll meet you in person and tell you the whole story.
You will be okay. You will be happy.

don't be too hard on yourself my dear. you've gone through a hell of a lot of changes in the past few days!

have you looked for a new therapist yet? i bet that could help with the transition.

(((hugs for you)))

Helen,

As Jim's email. I trust Jim.

Hmmm...not much to say today since I just sent you an email, I just couldn't let a virgin comment page go by unspoilt.

Hehe