Everyday Stranger

Yayyy Helen! Thanks for sticking up for our gerbils.

Just a comment on Americans always saying the state, along with the name. I'm assuming that the cartoon TV show, The Simpsons is on over there. The show is set in the town of Springfield because there's a town named Springfield in almost all of the 50 states.

Here in St Louis, MO I'm about equidistant from Springfield, IL and Springfield, MO. The city of O'Fallon MO is much closer than O'Fallon IL, but they're both within a tank of gas. Around here, you have to be specific about which state you're talking about.

"And I think its funny here the way ppl say Shawnee, Oklahoma or Kansas city, Kansas(?), I mean..where else would Kansas city be!"

Missouri

Next time they comma you, off-handedly mention that IF there were any "British Empire" left, perhaps they, too, would use city-comma-province for the shear necessity to differentiate between all of the duplication in city names. Kinda like the "Colonies."

::snark::

Solomon said:
"Who would look at "Leice" and get "less"? . . . Rule 2 would simply give the "ei" the "a" sound, so Leice=Lace."

Yeah, I know it's a bit odd, but I was trying to show how the word can have two syllables (even if you don't agree with the first vowel sound).

It's the same with Worcester. It's not Wor-chess-ster, it's Worse-ster, because you have

worce="worse" + ster="ster"

so "Worse-ster"--two syllables.

Same with Gloucester:

Glouce="gloss" + ster="ster"

so "Gloss-ster," not "Glow-chess-ster"

While "Glouce" might not look like it should be "gloss," we can agree that it should definitely be one syllable.

I don't get how anybody can hate Americans simply for being American, when essentially every other country has had an input to the population. For what it's worth, I like Americans (but I coouldn't eat a whole one !).

Actually, just as a point of order:

My country is way better than anyone else's. Seriously. It's amazing.

Ollie, point well taken on the US giving McNasties to the world. And I needed the laugh on this Friday afternoon!

I saw "Kill Bill 2" Didn't see the "Passion" and from yours and other friends recommendation I probably won't. It just didn't appeal to me to see a Hollywood depiction of the crucifixion of Christ. From Hollywood all I want is entertainment; like Tarantino gory jokes and cliche dialog. And maybe enjoy 'viewing' Uma, Daryl Hannah, Charlize Theron, Halle Berry, Izabella Scorupco, Annabella Sciorra, etc.

I always love when they drag out the passport statistic. Well, if I couldn't back up my car without crossing a border, I guess I'd need a passport, too, but things are on a different scale here. Plus, you don't need a passport to go to Canada. But the comment on how we give the names of our states with our cities surprised me; I hadn't heard that was thought of as odd before. Maybe they don't understand: 50 independent republics, baby! Despite the "new federalism," every state is different (I'm a big states' rights advocate). From the outside it probably all looks like the United States. I was a New Yorker stranded in Arkansas last week, and I may as well have been in Bosnia for all I had in common with the locals.

That's what I had heard about "The Passion".

Oh and BTW, before I forget to mention it, Jeremy Clarkson = berk.

Kaetchen and Ollie nailed it, really-there are gits in every nation.

Many of whom I dated in my twenties.

By the way-if you haven't seen that"Passion" movie? Um...don't. Keep your 6 dollars/pounds/Euros and just watch someone beat a lump of hamburger.

Same effect.

If there's one thing we can agree on, it's that there are gits in all nations!

Look, anywhere you go, there are going to be dumbasses who think that their moral and/or national superiority entitles them to mock those who are different from them. It's not limited to the British, though certainly Helen's getting her fair share at the moment. There is no place on earth where dumbfuckery has been eliminated!

Good on you, Helen, for keeping the conversation work-related. That's not easy when you're being bashed. May I recommend note-taking to yourself when those fools are speaking? It keeps you balanced and provides a distraction.

To be fair, I have heard my fair share of talk from Americans saying what "smelly, horrible, cheese-eating surrender monkeys the French are or various other national stereotypes.

Let's just say each country, each religion, each race, each town, each family, even each person, has a segment that is a bit twatty. :)

Well, I've had about four glasses of wine at my local gasthaus, so who knows how coherent this will be.

I had the same thing in NZ - they call it tall poppy syndrome. As I've probably said before in a comment, I finally lost it after fifteen minuets of boring discussion about how they'd kicked our nuclear sub out of their harbor. Har! Har! We showed you Americans, horrible imperialist people. My husband had to pull me out the door frothing after I'd expounded on the fact that NZ wasn't even a blip on the U.S. radar screen, most of us got them confused with Australia, what's the difference anyway, and so forth. They didn't bring it up again.

My favorite reply belongs to two reservists that I sent down to Salzburg for the weekend. Both lovely Southern gentlemen from South Carolina trying to have a quiet beer. The Austrians attacked them verbally about Bush, etc. The reservists listened quietly, then said" Well we wish we could reply in kind, but no American knows who the president of Austria is - what does that tell you!?!"

It's a pretty unsophisticated mind that takes a country's television characters and politicians as indicators of what its people are really like. There's all this talk among Europeans (I've heard it too) about Americans being stupid, oversexed, crass, etc. But man, you're watching Baywatch and Friends and reruns of 90210! I'm sure everyone in England is just like those kooks on Fawlty Towers....

Also, w/r/t the misconception that Americans get the spelling and pronunciations of English words "wrong" because we're just idiots: Early Americans deliberately changed the spellings of many English words to differentiate the American language from the Queen's English. And from there, language and pronunciation evolve within regional dialects.

That's OK Solomon, I knew that. I just like gibbering on about stuff. :)

Johnny, can I just say:

"When the English go on vacation they become like women at a restaurant, they can't go anywhere alone, they have to travel in even numbered packs."

LOL! That is so true. Hilarious observation.

However:

"- At least American's know how to cook other things than intestines and snouts."

I think the country that gave the world McDonalds is on pretty dodgy ground with a statement like this. ;) :D

As you know, Helen, I've commented on my blog about this entry and about what people have been commenting...

Excellent rebut Ollie. I truly was just having fun as there are plenty of U.S. cities with odd spellings since they derived from other languages: American Indian (take your pick), Hawaiian, Eskimo, French, Dutch, Spanish, and others.

When it comes to spelling, exceptions are the rule.

Oh boy, that must be a blast hanging out with a bunch of people all ripping on you all the time. Wheeee. A cavalcade of fun.

Need some return fire?
- When the English go on vacation they become like women at a restaurant, they can't go anywhere alone, they have to travel in even numbered packs.
- People go blind from accidentally staring straight at an Englishmen's pasty white knees.
- Without the US, the UK would be some European country's bitch.
- At least we don't have hooligans who live for nothing but going to socc-er-football matches so they can kick the stuffing out of other hooligans.
- At least American's know how to cook other things than intestines and snouts.

And if you really want to rub them.
- At least America has a president, England is going to have a gay king (not that there's anything wrong with being gay).

Place names are difficult, because they often came about in times where letters were used in different ways to how they are used now. For example, f used to mean s and vice versa. In fact, standard English and received pronunciation are relatively new things, which coincided with when the first dictionaries were becoming widely distributed. I would guess it's a 18th century invention, standard English, but that's just a guess. For interest's sake, Leicester as a name is first recorded around the 10th century, and it was originally Ligera ceaster, meaning (Roman) fort of the people of Ligore, the Ligore being a tribe who were around at the time. Over time, with different letters being used and different pronunciations being attached to certain letters, that became Leicester pronounced Lester. Strictly speaking, not fitting in with the current 'rules' of English, but place names are an exception because they have evolved in times before a standardised English and before standardised pronunciations. I agree though, silly to take the piss out of mispronunciation of that,especially if you've never heard it spoken.

'2. Leicester. Leice= "less", ster= "ster." Ergo, Less-ster. Lester.' That's much better...NOT!

Who would look at "Leice" and get "less"? 2 rules of thumb: 1) when 2 vowels go walking, the 1st one does the talking, and 2) "i" before "e" except after "c", or when sounded as "a" as in neighbor or weigh. Rule 1 would suggest the 1st "e" is sounded, the "i" is silent, and the 2nd "e" makes the 1st "e" long; so Leice=Lease. Rule 2 would simply give the "ei" the "a" sound, so Leice=Lace.

It's your/their language; do what you want. But don't have a word that doesn't fit the main rule and is even an exception to the exception, and then make fun of US for not getting it right the first time:)

By the way I stayed in Leicester for 10 days back in '87 and loved it and the people...but not the spelling:)

Different nationalities, pronunciations, and slang terms sure can be fun:)

OK, here are the thoughts of a scummy Brit, if you don't mind hearing them.

1. Take the piss out of the Queen or my country or anything else for all I care, it really doesn't bother me.

To be honest, I don't agree that Americans are the only nationality that British people 'take the piss' out of, although I do accept that SOME Brits reserve special piss taking extremity for Americans. Maybe it depends where you are, but I've experienced first hand the French, Germans, Aussies, New Zealanders and of course all the British nationalities like Welsh and English having the piss taken out of them. Deriding the French is a national pastime. Personally, I prefer self-deprecation, as Heather can probably confirm. Self-deprecation doesn't hurt anyone, whilst sticking with the cultural tendency to take the piss. And I can laugh at myself. I'm a useless freak. I find that amusing.

As for the term 'taking the piss', I'll explain the origins. :)

It originated in the Second World War I think, and it derives from the 'deflated' feeling you get after having the piss taken. Piss taken = deflated = you have been mocked. Taking the mickey or mick, which is a milder version of taking the piss, is Cockney rhyming slang for taking the piss. Taking the piss = taking the Mickey Bliss = taking the Mickey or mick. I hope that clears it up. I never understood it before either. :)

And as far as I can gather, British people have mocked others for eternity. I don't know why, I can't explain that, however, it is a very difficult cultural trap to escape. It's such a large part of our upbringing. So in essence, I'm saying don't blame us as such, we didn't choose to be born British, it's the way we're brought up. And if someone says to me they don't like having the piss taken, I stop. Simple as that. I'm not in the business of hurting people. I also don't think it's an inferiority complex, and that's the honest truth. If anything, people, especially the Australians, hate what they deem as British arrogance. A lot of those typical little Englander Brits that I know have an enormous superiority complex. Personally, I think this country is a bit of a dump, and I don't feel I want to 'prove' the worth of the UK as a country. However, I do love our countryside and our buildings and such, in fact that's what I like about Europe as a whole. The people? Bastards. :)

In response to the city comma state thing, I don't think many folks realize just how big it is here. Kansas City was mentioned, there are 4 of them, only one in Kansas. I live in Pasadena, CA, there are 4 other Pasadena's in the US. When you understand that California alone is over 3 times larger than England, you start to see why we reuse city names, and why the comma state is needed. Of course we could have just made up new interesting ways to spell names, but then we would have had a whole shitload of towns like Zzyzx, CA. I would love to hear that pronounced in the Queens English, HEH

I was exonerated, Mr. Grey Headed Stranger, when in Scotland Mr. Y and I stopped in Dallas, Scotland.

I even have the pics to prove it.

While serving with the British Army I had to remind them that we had a "London" in 12 states, a "Paris" in 9 states, and not to mention a Washington in 14 states, a Washington state, and a Washington, DC (plus several thousand other dupl-, tri-, quad-, cations, etc.).

You did well, like others I found that sporting back with good taste in humorous bantering built on our friendships but bad taste (ie no putting down the Queen for them and no putting down our patriotism/love for our country for us) was grounds for instant rebutal and potential loss of friendship.

And H, I have to agree with you, just as no state in the good old USA is better than any other, no country is better than any other (even France, which I personnaly despise, has some saving graces). Pride in one's land is great, over zealousness breeds agressive nationalistic behavior.

Standing proud in Killeen, Texas with just a few thoughts from an old......

LOL...In New Zealand we say we are getting *on the piss* (drinking) then we get pissed (drunk).In the US if I say Im pissed,it means Im angry!
And I think its funny here the way ppl say Shawnee, Oklahoma or Kansas city,Kansas(?),I mean..where else would Kansas city be!
And Im amazed at the only 2 wks holidays..as you say Helen,how far can you get in a week at a time.
I laughed at mother-in-law calling you Helena..maybe its a posh English thing;)

Oh how I wish we Americans and our country were respected more....

Oh, you kill me! (I love that you replace the names of telecomm tech gadgets with "hamster" or "gerbil," btw. It just makes it funnier to read.)

I don't doubt the guy was surprised by your reaction. They're used to Americans abroad being good-natured about the joking. For all we sometimes get slapped with the label "culturally insensitive," most Americans I know who are traveling to Europe do take some time to try to learn a little bit about where they're going, what the customs are, etc. And most of them, to borrow the British expression, stiffen the upper lip in preparation, because they know they're going to get some teasing about their origins. It goes with the territory.

On the other hand, I'd like the British to tell me why I should save my money, endure the hassles of intercontinental flight, renew the passport, exchange the currency, and spend two weeks' worth of hard-eared money in the U.K. to be mocked and derided.

I mean, really. I can get that treatment just traveling to New York.

1. If British people didn't need a passport to go on a booze cruise to France or a weekend in Ibiza, 80% of them wouldn't have passports either.

2. Leicester. Leice= "less", ster= "ster." Ergo, Less-ster. Lester.

3. They won't stop, ever. Simon is right that they'll now think you're a pushy American. He's also right that it's their loss.

4. God forbid if you say "math" instead of "maths." God forbid if you make a sandwich without putting butter on both pieces of bread first. God forbid if you don't think it's weird to drive more than 2 hours to get somewhere. British people are delightfully petty about stupid things.

5. You'll notice soon that nobody in this country has any common sense.

6. Despite all of this, Jiminy is wrong.

As an American datinga Brit, the phrase "taking the piss" really confuses me. Here, if you are poking fun at someone, you're "giving them shit." It would seem to me that it should be "giving the piss," since the person you are making fun of is the one taking the piss. Does that make sense to anyone but me? I just don't understand.

Not to be the typical American on this site, but I have to disagree with you, Helen, about how no country is better than any other. This country is the greatest country that has ever existed on earth. This is in terms of military might, economic power, and the simple yet elusive quality of giving the most freedom to the most people. We've saved the world from totalitarianism twice in the last century alone. It's also the longest lasting continuous democracy in existence.

They can make fun of us all they want. Because, where would they be without us, the good ol' US of A? The smallest f-ing province in the Russian Empire!

For the English folk, who will know where this comes from:

Whatever you do, don't mention the war!

If they get on your nerves, remind them of the fact that we kicked the riff raff out of our country quite some time ago, something called the American Revolution. Then out of the kindness of our hearts we bailed them out of two world wars.

Helen you make a good point about the 80% thing. And I for one will never mistake one person with an entire countries population. But... when did the President of the USA get his passport? When was the first time he travelled and saw a bit of the world? I think a person in his position should... :-). Miguel.

Here's the thing...in Europe you can't go 500 miles in any single direction without needing a passport. In the USA you can't go 500 miles and need one.

Passion and Kill Bill2, eh? From what I hear they have about the same amount of gore. Hehe

Don't need a passport. I can get made fun of right here in the good ol' U.S. of A. Why spend thousands of dollars, risk my life on a plane, fly 9 hours, and stand in eternal Customs lines just to be made fun of? I can get that here for free:)

(This is written with a sarcastic, humorous tone...didn't want to be accused of being whiny) Who in their right mind would look at "Leicester" and pronounce it "Lester"? Who? There's no grammatical rule of thumb that says "ice" in a word that starts with "l" is silent. If they went around pronouncing "lice" as "l", I'd admit that I should have figured out Leicester is pronounced Lester. In the absence of that, just admit it's a terrible spelling. (end of sarcasm)

Some foreigners make fun of Americans for not visiting all the wonderful spots in America, and now I find we're being made fun of for not having (and I presume not using) a passport. If we made both of those groups happy, a third group would make fun of us for traveling so much:) What's a country to do?:)

*cough*whokickedyouout*cough*

I don't know why they were ribbing you about 80% of Americans not having passports.

Some would argue that's a blessing ;)

Ok, had a big long reply lined up ... can't be bothered ... started rambling ... will try again later ... *cough*whocolonisedyou*cough*

;-)

H,
Feel free to point out America's superior dental coverage. Or just that we have some.

This is so yesterday, but still:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object.cgi?object=/chronicle/pictures/2004/04/22/dd_pogues.jpg&paper=gate&file=ddish.DTL&directory=/gate/archive/2004/04/21&type=entertainment

To be honest, I have never been around too many british people. But I have been in large groups of Canadian people and they seem to have a similar attitude about Americans. There are quite a few ironies to this:

1. They happen to be either attending American schools or working for American companies at the time.
2. They all plan to STAY and make AMERICAN MONEY.

My favorite is the debate we have about the terms "writing an exam" versus the american "taking an exam".

But to show how Americans never take it lying down, you have people like my fiancee and brother who are surrounded by Canadians, making jokes about their inferiority complex :)

I've never been good at the superiority game. Unfortunately, I get it all the time, especially since moving down to Georgia. All of the people that I knew up North have a grand time explaining to me that my friends and neighbors are inbred and illiterate. Sorry, I've lived in the South for most of my life... I love stereotypes.
Crap, the sarcasm key isn't working.

Woohoo! well done Helen!

*said while wearing plaid shorts, a striped T-Shirt, black socks and white tennis shoes, waving two mini american flags, and two more stuck in the brim of my truckers cap*

Americans are sooooo cute when they get pissed off. :-)

The only thing you can do is give it back to them, which is what you did. It will make them think you're a pushy American and re-enforce their stereotypes, but that's their loss, not yours. Or just not give a sh!t, which is what the British call "turning the other cheek". Given America is the world's superpower and economic powerhouse, and Britain is a pale shadow of its former glory, you can just consider it all a bad case of inferiority complex.

you are so right about the way the British tease people!
I cant really comment as i am pretty merciless about he Americans too, i dont know why but they do suffer at the hands of the British alot!

Abs x